Maya Spector – Honey & Heartache

Maya Spector discusses her record, Honey & Heartache.

🎙️ Episode Summary

In this episode, Tim sits down with the multifaceted singer-songwriter and musical theater specialist, Maya Spector. They discuss the journey behind her 2020 album, Honey & Heartache, a self-funded project that explores the complexities of love, loss, and tumultuous relationships.

Maya opens up about the stories behind her most evocative tracks—from the romantic view of hikers on Lion’s Head in “City Lights” to the emotional family tribute in “Tiny Little Bird.” She also reveals how she pivoted during the lockdown by attending business school, leading to the creation of The Papaya House, a new collaborative production company bridging art and entrepreneurship.

Tune in to hear about Maya’s upcoming orchestral pop shows, her deep dive into Flamenco dancing, and her behind-the-scenes work on the Cape Town jazz documentary, Breath of the Blues.

🗝️ Key Takeaways

• The “Three-Chord” Jazz Challenge: Maya explains how one of her most complex-sounding jazz tracks, “Every Time,” was actually a challenge to herself to write a song using only three chords in five minutes.
• Life Inspiring Art: The touching story behind “Tiny Little Bird,” written after Maya’s mother lost her voice at a family funeral, and how a chance encounter with a Hadeda bird became a metaphor for helplessness and resilience.
• The Business of Music: How the lockdown pushed Maya to pursue a postgraduate degree in business, realizing that the “creative mind” is an essential asset for entrepreneurship.
• Interactive Performance: Why Maya prioritizes “singalongable” moments in her live sets to make the audience feel like part of the band.
• New Ventures: A look at Maya’s upcoming projects, including the Hopefully Romantic EP and her work with the Bailaora Flamenco show.

⏱️ Chapter Markers

• 00:00 – Introduction to Maya Spector
• 01:33 – The journey of creating Honey & Heartache
• 03:13 – “City Lights”: Hiking Lion’s Head and Latin influences
• 06:17 – “Every Time”: How to write a jazz standard in 5 minutes
• 08:30 – “Tiny Little Bird”: Grief, family, and finding strength
• 12:44 – New Single: “You’re Always On My Mind” & Game of Thrones inspiration
• 15:35 – The Papaya House: Merging creativity with business
• 18:09 – Orchestral collaborations at Youngblood Gallery
• 20:15 – Dancing and singing for the Bailaora Flamenco show
• 21:49 – Breath of the Blues documentary and District Six history

🔗 Links

• Album: Honey & Heartache (Available on all streaming platforms)
• New Single: “You’re Always On My Mind”
• Production Company: The Papaya House
• Venues: Youngblood Art Gallery, The Masque Theatre
• Documentary: Breath of the Blues

About the Guest

Maya Spector is a global citizen, musical theater specialist, and jazz/soul singer-songwriter. A graduate of the University of KwaZulu-Natal, her career includes solo performances at the Kennedy Center in Washington, D.C., and collaborations with industry legends like Jim Henson. Maya is the founder of The Papaya House, a creative production hub, and continues to contribute to the cultural landscapes of South Africa and the USA.

📖 Transcript

Tim Smal [host]: Hi everyone and welcome to the show today. My name is Tim Smal and here on the show I speak to amazing musicians about their awesome records. Today my guest is Maya Spector. She is a musical theater specialist and singer songwriter whose artistic roots are derived from the wonderful worlds of jazz and soul music. A global citizen by heart, Maya is well versed in the distinctive cultural attributes of communities and audiences in Asia, United States of America, South Africa and Africa. And to this day, Maya’s parents are both active and revered contributors to the political and cultural landscape of the globe. Maya’s career includes solo performances at the esteemed Kennedy center in Washington, D.C., alongside the highly respected television industry, veteran and puppeteer, Jim Henson. A graduate of the University of KwaZulu Natal, Maya has left an indelible mark in the world of musical theatre through delivering powerful performances in classic musicals and her debut album, Honey & Heartache, was released in 2020. Maya, welcome to the show! 

Maya Spector [guest]: Hi, Tim. Thank you so much for having me. 

Tim Smal [01:07]: Yeah, it’s great to have you on the show today. And I’m really excited to speak with you about a number of different interesting topics. You’ve got a brand new single coming out on September 8th, as well as many other shows that you’re involved in and even some documentary films. So lots to talk about today, thanks for joining me. Let’s kick off with chatting a little bit about your debut album, Honey & Heartache that came out in 2020. What can you tell us about it? 

Maya Spector [01:33]: I’m sure that a lot of the musicians that you speak to say that they’ve either worked on an album for a very long time or a very short period of time. Honey & Heartache took me quite a long time to begin and finish. And unfortunately, it sort of happened that I was done with it just before lockdown. I was going to have a whole launch and everything. And then all of that happened and then we were transformed into a new way of living for a while. So it didn’t get the same sort of momentum into the release of it that I put into creating it.

But I’m very, very happy that it’s out there because it’s been able to give me, I wouldn’t say accolades, but that sort of representation of a musician where you have a body of work where people can come back to and reflect upon and you yourself can also reflect upon where you were – that’s what an album is, of course. Yeah, it’s not the longest of albums. But it was a self-funded album and I was very excited to work with all the people that were able to work on it with me over time and it just takes you through the journey of having loved, having lost love, and tumultuous relationships as many songwriters may tend to have. I don’t know if we’re always searching for the drama or searching for the new song, but I’m trying to change my ways, I’m trying to change my ways. 

Tim Smal [02:48]: Awesome. Yeah, well, I’ve listened to the album a number of times and I really enjoy it. Of course, the songs are very varied. Some of them are nice and chilled and relaxed and soft, and others are more upbeat and very expressive and very creative. So it definitely takes you on a beautiful musical journey, and I’d love to chat about a number of those tracks quickly. Let’s talk about the opening track City Lights, because that really sets the tone for the album, right. 

Maya Spector [03:13]: I wrote that song a number of years before I actually went into studio to record it. And I actually wrote it for a different reason than the way that it was actually presented on the album, I was collaborating with some electronic music producers and they sent me a loop. This one guy sent me a loop and he’s like, “Oh, can you just write to this loop?” And I came up with this melody that was sort of Latin-y in a sense, a sort of, romantic in a sense. And then I forgot about it for a number of years and then it came back and I was like, ‘That was a great melody. That was a great story.” So, it is a reflection upon a relationship that I started when I first came to Cape Town.

And I had this little flat in a place called Oranjezicht, that some people may know in the CBD in Cape Town. And, my balcony could look out at Lion’s Head. And I was a fresh blood to Cape Town, I didn’t really understand that people out here do this thing called hiking. I didn’t understand why people want to run up a mountain, but I’ve hence done it a few times. And I saw out there, and it was one of those summer nights, I remember, and there was the full moon, and there was all these wonderful little lights going up the mountain, and it looked like a Christmas tree, almost, to me. And then I realized later that it was hikers. But, I thought it was quite a romantic view, And to look out upon that and to see all of those little strings of lights, especially in the summertime, there’s about 2000 people that go hiking on a full moon night in the summertime, especially if it’s still and warm. And it just set the scene for a very romantic song. And that’s basically where it came from.

So I wanted to take a little bit of a Latin influence in the way that I created this song that reflected upon the rhythmical elements that Cape Town brings out of someone or for me. And I could hear a little bit of the hooting of the traffic in Long Street and all the sort of craziness that was going on. So I wanted to give it this sort of romantic moody feel that that whole scenery was giving me and it turned into City Lights. It’s actually supposed to be “Hikers With Lights on Their Heads”, but City Lights sounded cooler. 

Tim Smal [05:19]: Amazing. Yeah, there’s nothing quite like coming to Cape Town for the first time and experiencing all the magic that the city has to offer. But I loved your story about hiking because of course, Capetonians love to hike, myself included. But typically I keep to the more relaxed routes like Pipe Track and Kloof Corner and so forth. But many of my friends are always hitting up, Skeleton Gorge and Devil’s Peak – that’s maybe something I’ll do in another lifetime 

Maya Spector [05:45]: I’m much more happy by the water. If there’s the reward of water at the end of the hike, I’m all for it – but if there’s no water, why are we doing it? Sorry to all the hikers, okay. 

Tim Smal [05:56]: All right. Yeah, so City Lights is the opening track to Honey and Heartache. Of course, many other really cool tracks on the album, but a standout track for me is a track called Every Time, because I feel like there’s a lot going on in that song and it’s very emotive and very expressive and there’s a lot of cool production things going on in that particular song. So can you tell me more about that one?

Maya Spector [06:17]: It’s an interesting song that so many people gravitate towards that. I think maybe because in the lineup, it’s a little bit further on in the track list. And that song was actually one of those five minute writing songs that just happened. Sometimes it takes me a while to write a song and sometimes it takes five minutes. And I wanted to challenge myself to write a song with three chords. So that’s what I actually did. So that song has three chords. And it sounds a whole lot more complicated than it really is. And I think that is something that a lot of… let’s say, jazz musicians, aim to have is something that’s simple at its core, but it sounds much more complex. And I think that the years and years of experience in making music and creating music and performing music, in the performance of the song is able to tell a story really well.

Because like I said, it’s kind of based on these tumultuous relationships that I’ve had in my life. And, I’m not saying that an exciting relationship is a bad relationship, but that excitement – I wanted to feel that “butterfly moment” of everyone is telling you this person is not good for you and you’re saying “Oh, but I like trouble so much.” So that’s basically what that song is about. And it’s an interesting song, in the sense that a couple of friends of mine that teach at different universities around the country in the jazz departments have asked me to use that song for their students. And they’ve been singing it in their recitals and singing it in their exams, and I think that’s really cool. And I feel very, very proud that a song that wasn’t meant to be jazz is the most jazz song on the album. So, yeah. 

Tim Smal [07:53]: Yeah, that’s an amazing story because it’s clearly a standout track and very popular with many fans. And even from my perspective, I listened to it and interpreted it as quite a complex song. And so it’s so interesting to hear that it’s actually quite simple and you wrote it quite quickly. So it’s super interesting to discover that and think more about the journey of a musician through all of their songwriting when they’re working on songs that take a long time and working on songs that take a short time, and then you put them all together and you have this journey of songs on an album, So I’m glad we spoke about that one. What about Tiny Little Bird, that’s a really beautiful song. I’d love to know more about that one. 

Maya Spector [08:30]: So, it’s a song kind of about my mother. So my mom is South African and my dad is from the U.S. originally. And, my mother is from quite a big family in Cape Town and Jo’burg. So she’s one of seven siblings. And then her father was one of 14 siblings from Paarl. So I have this expansive, wonderful family in Cape Town. And when one of my mom’s sisters passed away – her eldest sister passed away, and because my mother is also a singer, and many people in my family are singers and musicians and actors and artists. But in a sort of like coloured family, when you have a funeral or a wedding or any kind of thing, you must now be singing for free. So, I say that as a joke, but I say that seriously too.

So at the funerals we always have to sing and because it was my mom’s sister who had passed away, we were both supposed to sing at the funeral. So when we got up to the altar and we had to sing together, my mom just absolutely lost it. And she wasn’t able to sing and I had to sing a duet basically by myself. And when I came back to Cape Town after the funeral, which was in Joburg, I was driving on the road and I saw a hadeda on the road. And it was stretching out its wing and my heart feels very deeply for animals. And I didn’t know how to help this bird and it was raining and it was evening time. And I was thinking, “Oh my gosh, must I just put this hadeda in my car and take it to the vet? Or what must I do? Is it going to kill me while it’s in the car?” So I made the decision to sort of leave it cause I didn’t know what to do. And then I came home and I was bawling, bawling, bawling, bawling.

So it must’ve been a little bit of the build up of emotion from the funeral, as well as seeing the bird. And then I wrote this song about my mom losing her voice at the funeral and me not being able to save everyone. So that’s basically what the song is about. It’s about finding the strength again to be able to go on and yeah, also “Big Hadeda Bird on the Road” didn’t sound as cool as “Tiny Little Bird.” 

Tim Smal [10:34]: Yeah. Some would say hadedas are not tiny little birds, but I certainly understand the story, so it makes complete sense. Are there any tracks on the album that you’d like to mention perhaps, favorites of yours? 

Maya Spector [10:48]: As probably most musicians will say is that, every track is a little piece of their soul. So there’s something in every song that’s really special to me. Some of the songs I reinvented after an EP that I had done before. So I re-recorded songs like My Simple Little Song and Eyes for You. Yeah, so I sort of reinvented them with a producer that was doing the album for me that basically got the feel that I really wanted from them in the first place on this album. And, yeah, I think every song is definitely a piece of me, of some kind, and I can’t say that there’s a favorite child that I have. There are songs that I would say are crowd favorites because they’re much more sing along able. I like to engage with my audience when I’m on stage, so I’m not the kind of artist that performs the song in the exact same way as it is on the album.

So I’m much more of a theatrical kind of person in the moment, and I think that that is why a lot of people will come back to my gigs because they feel quite involved in the process of being acknowledged, being seen, being part of the musicians, in a sense. I want everyone to feel like they’re part of the band. So songs like Eyes for You and My Simple Little Song, have these singalongable moments in it where I want everyone to sing and to not feel like you sound horrible, you sound bad, or you’re singing the wrong thing. And even in the song, My Simple Little Song, I say, “It’s a silly little song, I don’t mind if you sing it wrong.” You just keep doing whatever you do, and it doesn’t matter to me as long as you’re having a good time, you’re enjoying the moment, and we’re creating memories together. 

Tim Smal [12:32]: Wonderful. And you’ve got a new single coming out on September 8th called You’re Always On My Mind. I’m sure you’re very excited about releasing this track. Do you want to tell us a bit more about that? 

Maya Spector [12:44]: So I have recently in the past couple of years, have learned the real value of funding, and funding is an incredible thing to get. And I was privileged enough to become one of the SAMPRA Development Fund recipients. And so I got some money to put towards an EP, so which I haven’t actually finished the whole EP, but I was able to finish two of the songs. So this song that’s going to be coming out, is coming out as a single, and then the rest of the songs will come a little bit later. And then will be lumped together as an EP as well called Hopefully Romantic. I’m not a struggling, sad person, it’s just – I’m a songwriter and I’m always looking for a story. So the sort of aloneness, of coming out of a relationship and trying to go out there back into the world and see what else is out there and sort of making your way back to the same point you were before, but being “hopefully romantic” about it instead of being a “hopeless romantic”.

So this song, You’re Always on My Mind was something that I wrote during lockdown. So one of the things that I was watching quite a lot of was Game of Thrones. And there’s a line in the song that goes, “Dun, da, da, dun, dun, da, da, dun, dun, da, da, dun, dun.” So that’s the theme song of Game of Thrones, so I’ve sort of injected that into the song. And then I was remembering times of being part of musicals like Rent and those classic musicals. And there’s got a sort of musical theater-esqueness about the song. So this song is about when you have lost the love and you’re always constantly thinking about them. And I thought that – because Game of Thrones is quite an intense series and Rent is not the most… I mean, essentially it’s La Boheme at the end of the day, the opera. So everything is quite tragic. And so I wanted to write something that was, first of all, a quite a tragic sounding song and again, challenging myself to write something that was quite poppy. So when you hear it, you’ll hear I wrote a pop song and I’m very proud of the fact that I wrote a pop song. Yeah. 

Tim Smal [14:50]: Cool. Wow, a lot of influences going into the new single, especially the Game of Thrones influences.

Maya Spector [14:56]: I’m not sure if they can actually hear it, but it’s there. Yeah. 

Tim Smal [15:00]: Cool. Awesome. All right, so I’m very excited to hear that there’s a new EP coming out soon – well, in the near future. So if the listeners get a hold of Honey and Heartache, don’t worry, that’s not all that there is. There’s a new EP coming out soon. And of course the first single is out September 8th for you to listen to. As you mentioned, you’re a singer-songwriter with a lot of work in the musical theater that you’ve done and so forth, but you’re also a new business owner. You’ve started The Papaya House and you are putting on some amazing shows where you’re exploring all different kinds of genres. Can you tell us more about that? 

Maya Spector [15:35]: So, also something that was very interesting during lockdown is many of us didn’t have yhings to do and one of things that was said to me by my dear parents was “Why don’t you go back to school?” And I was like, “I don’t want to go back to school.” So I applied to business school as a joke, and I got into business school. And then I thought it was a joke again. And then I applied because I didn’t have money to study. So I ended up getting a full scholarship to study through Henley Business College and I did a Postgraduate in Business there, in Management Practice. And it’s taught me an immense amount of things that are so applicable to being a creative. And I also learned that the creative mind is such an important mindset for entrepreneurs to have. And creatives are… instinctually, we are entrepreneurs in everything that we do. So I tried to step into my entrepreneurial mode and try to take on all the projects that I have been doing over the years and  streamlining them into a business. And it could be a little bit separate from Maya Spector, but it is very much underneath The Papaya House.

And the reason why I’ve called it The Papaya House is ’cause my name is “Maya Papaya” to many people. And I wanted to sort of recognize the feminine in it, and the many seeds that you do through collaborations by being fruitful in the way that we collaborate with each other, planting seeds with each other and hoping that everyone takes from their excess and not takes from their bucket. So I encourage people to be part of the collaborations that I’m doing. And I’m very interested in cultural connections and educational connections, as somebody that comes from working on cultural programs and educational programs throughout my career. And I wanted to find a way of bringing together art, music, culture, and education together. And I was lucky enough to be pushed in the right direction because I started collaborating with a group called The Fulbright Scholarship program from the United States. And so I was sort of “kicked in the butt” to say “Open up your company!”, which I did. And so now I have the separate entity that I have, that houses a lot of my creative projects for collaboration that are outside of just making my own music. So that’s basically what The Papaya House is. Yeah.

Tim Smal [17:50]: So the listeners can find out more about that by visiting your Instagram account. You’ve got The Papaya House as well as your own Maya Spector account and all of the information is on those two different accounts. You actually have a show coming up on the 25th of November, which is quite interesting at Youngblood Gallery. Do you want to tell me more about that?

Maya Spector [18:09]: Yeah, so this is going to be the first show that The Papaya House is actually going to do – I mean, as the production house side of it. And I have decided that I wanted to showcase a lot of my peers. I mean, everyone in the music industry to me is my peer, so I would like to hold a space for everyone to come with their original music, but to be able to perform it in a different way than they’ve ever performed it before – or most people have performed it before – by taking original music and getting it scored for string quartet and then having piano in the background, so that people are stretched in their artistry, stretched in their creativity and placed in an environment where they get to explore a little bit more of their songwriting through a different genre as such. 

Yeah, and I want everyone to be dressed in ball gowns, and we’re gonna have a great backdrop and it’s going to be beautiful because, I don’t know if you’ve ever seen a performance of people singing with a string quartet or with an orchestra – it brings absolute tears to you. And it’s so beautiful to be able to hear the actual songwriting of a song – to hear the lyrics of a song, and being accompanied by these beautiful instruments that sound very much like human voices themselves. So that’s basically what it is. I’ve got different arrangers, different instrumentalists and different songwriters that are coming onto that, which I want to turn into a quarterly event that will most likely be happening at Youngblood Gallery for each one of them. And then hopefully getting some funding where I can take it to Joburg, take it to Durban, take it to Port Elizabeth, take it to other parts of the country – maybe even Kirstenbosch Gardens. I mean, we don’t know, something like that. 

Tim Smal [19:46]: Wonderful. Yeah, so the details for that show again are the 25th of November, 2023 at the Youngblood Art Gallery in Cape Town, it’s going to be an amazing show. And of course, there’ll be many more shows in the future too. But Maya, you are involved in a lot of different activities and projects-  not just your solo work and The Papaya House. You’re also doing some work in film, as well as a flamenco show that’s running at the Masque Theatre in September. Can you tell me more about that? 

Maya Spector [20:15]: I sound very, very busy. I don’t feel that busy, but I sound very busy. So again, like I said, much of my family is involved in the arts and I have an aunt who passed away last year who was a very well-known Flamenco dancer in Cape Town, her name was Veronica Williams. And she always said to me before she passed away… I’m not laughing at the fact that she passed away, I was laughing at the fact that she always said, “You have to do this before I die,” and I just didn’t do it. So I signed onto Flamenco lessons with one of her former students and I’ve been dancing Flamenco and I have now been asked to be a part of the show as a Flamenco singer.

So I’ve been trying to learn a little bit of Spanish in order to deliver the songs well. Yeah, and it’s going to be an incredible show. I wouldn’t come particularly to come watch me dance, but I would come to watch the advanced dancers dance and they are incredible. I have never seen a dance form that I have been so emotionally connected to. And I think that everyone needs to experience a flamenco show at least once in their life, it will make you feel alive – it really, really will. So I’ll be dancing in the beginners group, but I’ll be singing for the advanced dancers.

Tim Smal [21:31]: Awesome. So the dates for that show are the 21st to the 24th of September, 2023 at The Masque Theater. The name of the show is called Bailaora, if I’m pronouncing it correctly, so check that out – it’s going to be amazing. What about the documentary that you’re working on as well called Breath of the Blues, that sounds very interesting. 

Maya Spector [21:49]: Oh, yes. So, I was asked by a lady, her name is Ben Linderoth, to sort of help her to connect her with Cape Town musicians that come from the brown, black and coloured community, whatever you want to call in, whatever way you want to. And how music and jazz came out of District Six and has moved into different kinds of ways and transformed into the art form of choice for people from the community. And using that as the vehicle for expression and creativity, and how it’s transformed and morphed into different kinds of things. So I somehow have this talent of collecting contacts, and I’m always giving my contacts out to people. And this lady said, “Oh, you know, so many people, can you just help me to fix the people for interviews?” So I actually called many, many musicians that I know in Cape Town.

Unfortunately, they weren’t able to feature all the people in this documentary, but we have had interviews with about 20 musicians in Cape Town, and it’s really gonna be a beautiful documentary exploring the journey that many people had, and how it’s morphed and changed into this different cultural phenomenon that’s happened in Cape Town, where it’s sort of like in the hip-hop thing where, you get jazz music and you get jazzing, dancing, where in, the hip-hop culture you have the dance, the music and the art. So it’s that same sort of thing of finding that a group of people that felt displaced as such, were finding Connection through the displacement of loving one art form and how it’s created an expansion of creative expression for many people out of the community. So it’s called Breath of the Blues and I wrote a song as their theme song. And yeah, so it’s my first time working on a film set, where I wasn’t in front of the camera – behind the camera and making sure that everyone was coming on time. “Musicians are hard cats to…” You know, what did they say? What’s that expression? Anyway, nevermind. 

Tim Smal [23:50]: Yeah, well, thank you so much for your time today. I know you’re super busy and you’re running between castings and documentaries and flamenco dance sessions and so forth, so thanks so much for joining me on the show today. The documentary film sounds incredible. It’s a Cape Town based jazz documentary exploring musicians from District Six, So I’m sure everyone’s going to really enjoy that and hopefully it’ll be out November or December 2023. So certainly a lot to look forward to in the world of Maya Spector. Do you have any final words for the fans before we wrap up today?

Maya Spector [24:24]: I’m very, very honored to be on your show as well, first, before I speak to everybody out there. Thank you so much for reaching out and making me part of your platform of people that you’re showcasing. And to the people out there, I just hope that, if you’ve got something you want to collaborate on, come over to The Papaya House and we’ll make something happen. You know, we’re all about just creating, collaborating, and continuing. So, yeah. Thank you very much for having me and thank you to everybody out there for listening and, I appreciate it. 

Tim Smal [24:54]: Oh, you’re more than welcome Maya. And of course, as you’ve mentioned, everyone can get hold of you. You’re very well connected and you’re happy to receive messages from anyone. So if you’re listening to the show and you’d like to get hold of Maya for any reason, maybe, performing a show with her or whatnot, feel free to get hold of her, she’ll definitely return that email. All right, thanks for listening today, I’ll be back soon with another episode, So I really appreciate the support. Maya one last time. Thanks again and enjoy the rest of your busy day and week. 

Maya Spector [25:24]: Thank you so much.